Dr. Katriona O'Sullivan: Tackling Poverty, Language, and Policy

Dr. Katriona O’Sullivan, author of Poor and Associate Professor of Psychology, fielded a series of thought-provoking questions following her keynote speech at a recent event. The Q&A session allowed her to delve deeper into the themes of poverty, privilege, and the power of policy to transform lives.

The Power of Language: Underserved vs. Disadvantaged

The first question posed to Dr. O’Sullivan was about the language often used to describe people from low-income backgrounds—words like "disadvantaged" and "underprivileged." In response, Katriona emphasised that she prefers terms like underserved, as they place the responsibility on those in power rather than those who are struggling. “I never knew I was disadvantaged,” she explained, reflecting on her own experience of growing up poor. She pointed out that children in underfunded schools don’t necessarily realise they’re receiving less; they simply assume they’re working within the same system as everyone else. The key, she argued, is framing the language in a way that highlights structural inequality without making people feel like they are lesser.

Katriona also shared a story about a talk she gave at a school where parents had been informed that the event was specifically for “disadvantaged children.” One of the parents approached her afterwards, offended by the label, and emphasised that despite their financial struggles, they didn’t consider themselves disadvantaged. “It's important not to make people feel like they're a deficit,” she concluded, suggesting that organisations should work more closely with the communities they serve to ensure language is respectful and empowering.

Addressing Policy Failures and Creating Supportive Systems

Another attendee asked Katriona for her thoughts on how to create policies that genuinely support people in poverty, referencing her own experience of how the right policies at the right time had helped her succeed. Katriona’s response was multi-faceted. She first tackled the problem of metrics-driven services, which she described as reductive. “There has to be some trust that the work is getting done without expecting people to justify everything with metrics,” she said, pointing out that services often require proof of success through rigid metrics like the number of people housed or the percentage of attendees at programmes. These metrics, however, don’t capture the long-term impacts of relationship-building or the transformative power of personal connections.

Katriona also stressed the importance of failure being okay within policy frameworks. She noted that many services feel compelled to report only success, when in reality, some interventions don’t work and that should be acceptable. “We should be able to go to the policy makers and say, ‘This didn’t work,’ without fear of losing funding,” she argued.

She concluded with a powerful observation on the lack of joined-up thinking in policies that aim to lift people out of poverty. For example, many people are trapped in low-wage jobs because they can’t afford to lose their benefits or take time off to pursue education. Katriona passionately advocated for more flexible policies that allow people to move out of poverty through education and other opportunities without fear of financial ruin.

The Shame of Poverty and Access to Support

Dr. O’Sullivan then spoke about how shame is built into the process of accessing support. She recounted her own experience of being a university student who had to constantly prove she was poor enough to qualify for various grants and benefits. “It was like, ‘Please, sir, can I have some more?’ she said, describing how dehumanising it felt to navigate a system that automatically assumed she was lying or trying to exploit the system. After a talk she gave to the Irish government, the head of finance admitted that every policy he had worked on assumed people would lie to get money. This, she explained, perpetuates the shame and barriers faced by people in poverty.

She concluded with a hopeful note, sharing how that same official later commissioned her to train his department on how to better understand the experience of people trying to access government services, underscoring the importance of empathy and systemic reform.

Privilege and the Resistance to Change

One of the final questions tackled a fundamental issue: Why is it so difficult for people of privilege to accept that poverty breeds poverty, and that privilege breeds privilege? Katriona responded with a story about a lecturer who, when discussing how to make university admissions fairer, reacted with concern about his own son’s chances. The lecturer balked at Katriona’s suggestion to rank students from underperforming schools relative to their peers in wealthier institutions. “He said, ‘What about my son?’” Katriona explained, pointing out that people are happy to support charity but less willing to sacrifice their own position to make society fairer.

Katriona argued that many people in privileged positions are aware of inequality but are reluctant to relinquish their advantages. “They want people not to be living in poverty, they feel bad about it, but they don’t want to sacrifice their own position to make it fairer,” she concluded. The root of the problem, she noted, lies in a system that rewards and reproduces privilege, often at the expense of the most vulnerable.

Final Thoughts: Changing Lives Through Empathy and Action

Dr. O’Sullivan’s responses during the Q&A underscored the need for empathy, systemic reform, and an approach to poverty that is less about metrics and more about creating supportive, trusting relationships. She highlighted the role that individuals and policies can play in transforming lives, not through charity or paternalism, but by providing real opportunities for people to thrive. Her message was clear: by challenging our assumptions, changing our language, and creating policies that meet people where they are, we can make a lasting difference in the fight against poverty.