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What if fabric came fifth, not first?

8th July 2025

What is the right sequence to maximise retrofit investment? 

In this episode of #MakingHousingBetter, Jenny Danson, Chief Executive Officer at Healthy Homes Hub, is joined by Nigel Banks, Technical Director for Zero Bills and Low Carbon Homes at @Octopus Energy. Together, they explore why it's time to challenge the default 'fabric first' retrofit approach. 

The discussion covers: 

  • A new five-step hierarchy: why heat pumps, smart tariffs, and solar often deliver more value than deep retrofit 

  • Why current policy and funding are already shifting towards Fabric Fifth 

  • Risks from poorly executed fabric works — and how to avoid them 

  • What theCCCuk’s latest carbon budget says about the future of solid wall insulation 

  • Why technology and controls are critical for healthier, more affordable homes 

This episode isn’t about ditching insulation — it’s about sequencing smarter, spending better, and delivering real outcomes for tenants. 

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